My "Christian" Experience

last SG · 2008-05-14T15:01:06+00:00

lol, naked = satanic.hope of god ppl.. really drama la. everything = satanic. my answer to them: God is Satan.

Catholicuser SG

praying to saints a mockery .. no not at all.. like i said, you can pray to God directly.. or pray to the saints.. is asking the saints to pray for yr intentions.. As for yr prayers answer, it is God and NOT the saints who answer yr prayers ..

Icemoon SG

dumb dumb,

I'm sorry that yr aunt did not tell you the good news of Jesus much earlier. Maybe, she did not want to offend you.. as you were buddhists at that time?? You see, religion to the catholics is much on personal basis. Most Catholics, do not want to open up their religion to others.. me included. Reasons, dun want to offend others, not sure what to say.. etc.. sakli say wrong dunno how to answer malu. sia.. Probably she was like that..

I'm sure Protestants face the same problem(s) too mah.

But ultimately is the mentality lah. The Catholic stand on salvation is wishy washy at best. I think there is a stand, but they are worded to cover all possible scenarios. Like say other religions also possible to have salvation, but also say salvation is in the Catholic Church. Confusing leh.

Betcha many Catholics are confused too. So no exigency to spread the gospel like the Protestants. For Protestants, no two ways. Only gospel can save. So must spread gospel quickly!

If you know gonna die liao, then mai tu liao. won't procrastinate and think, still got chance lah. no chance lah, quickly spread gospel liao.

Icemoon SG

then you are saying saints can talk to God in a politically correct manner issit? lol

like you want to afford a car, so you pray for it. but you can't say you want a car to God, 'cos that will be very greedy.

if you ask saints to do it, they will say, our poor guy down there everyday take MRT, very packed and inconvenient, also no place to sit, can only stand. poor guy. so my Lord, maybe we should do something for him.

Catholicuser SG

Dumb dumb,

as for the girl died if without converting.. we CANNOT say that just because IF she was not converted PRIOR to her death.. she was unsaved, that is utteringly nonsense.!! Our God Is God of Love .. and we leave that judgement i.e the unsaved to the mercy of God..

As for catholics who did not live a christian life.. .. just dun try to follow them.. neither do you condemn them just pray for them.. show them good examples.. As in every religion, there are black sheep..

Chin Eng SG

To quote the WCF,

I am not even sure how many churches teaches the Westminster Confession of Faith. I goes back to what I'd said, you have all the time and resource in the world for such researches.... yet you are not even a Christian.

The poor and illterate don't have the resource or the intellect to repeat your feat yet they are Christians..... so who's saved and who's not.

Mrlimkopi SG

I really have no interest to help anyone. We all have our own stand on various issues. I will never say that I am totally right. I will attempt to understand your stand, as long as you don't insist that you are absolute correct.

I don't think he should listen to me, neither do I think that he is listening to me. Perhaps what I write echoes his thoughts.

that being the case, according to you..... no salvation is assured. that will make the entire Christian faith a farce, isn't it.

actually, I'm not sure you know either.

Brother, I never insist that I am right.......from the begining.....I am also saying that perhaps, we can ponder about it.

If there is any point that dumbdumb brought up that he can defend reasonably, it will set my minding thinking and seraching too.......but not with go church no go church and all the personal issue such as dead friend and uncles etc...

Just like how I was once swayed by osas....I did ponder for a while but did not accept. That's all. It's just for discussion but he turned it to a very personal attack and hatred for Catholics... instead of discussion of what's on the table.

I don't think salvation is not assured and if any christians need to fear. What I think the real problem is - many christains are not taught what I mentioned - perhaps, it sounded like, wah....still must work for it meh....how much is enough? etc...

But it's simply about believing in Jesus and following Him.....just need to show love sincerely.....how much is enought etc...is for God to decide. You do your best and put your trust and faith in God - He knows if you tried your best and there is no need to keep track like how many I convert and spoke to etc..... He said, if you have done to the least of one of your brothers and sisters, you have done it to me.

The only one who need to fear are those who HATE others instead of love.....they may end up in the group of goats. More so if they are christains because they should know what God wants from them (more than non-believers) yet they did not obey God.

Like what dumbdumb says, we just relax.....I read somewhere, someone said chrsitianity is a way of life, I agree - it's just living a life full of love (at least try our best).

Chin Eng SG

Brother, I never insist that I am right.......from the begining.....I am also saying that perhaps, we can ponder about it.

actually, as soon as someone come and make a statement like: "the scripture is very clear" - you have used that a few times - it is tantamount as saying that this person knows more than the person he's replying to.... yup, the phrase "I am right" was never used, but the attitude that "I am right" is already there.

another example: the last line in your reply to dumb2 on 15 May 5.05 pm

I am a Christian and I listen to Jesus.....

this is tantamount to saying that you listen to Jesus and dumb2 doesn't... and perhaps that's why dumb2 is antagonised by you.

Mrlimkopi SG

I'm sure Protestants face the same problem(s) too mah.

Betcha many Catholics are confused too. So no exigency to spread the gospel like the Protestants. For Protestants, no two ways. Only gospel can save. So must spread gospel quickly!

If you know gonna die liao, then mai tu liao. won't procrastinate and think, still got chance lah. no chance lah, quickly spread gospel liao.

Icemoon, Catholic stand on salvation is not wishy washy. We beleived salvation is by faith and deeds. It is very clear as I have explained to dumbdumb in the last judgement.

Catholics believed that God separate people into 2 groups based on if they have showed love to their neighbour - if they do, that means they also showed love to God. How else to show love to God? Talk and talk, praise and prasie, sing and sing yet do nothing ?

Imagine, we sing praise to God everyday telling non-believers how great is our God, our loving is He, how forgiving is He.....and then tell them but you will go to hell no matter how good and upright a person you are, no matter how much you love and help the community, you GO TO HELL! Only christians go heaven even if we sin like nobody's business.....because we are christians.....naynay bobo!! Is it? Does God looks like what we said He is?

We believed that as Christians, it an honour as God has chosen us (Jesus said no one can go to God but thru Him and no one can go to Him unless God send him or something like that) and for a reason. To spread the good news to the rest of the world by living a life in obedience to God - keeping the 2 most important commandment that Jesus taught us. So that people can see proof of God - in christians!

God is using christians as a "tool"....and if we don't function, we are like tasteless salt, the darnel or even the the useless ones that was collected from the fisherman's haul... IE useless christians that God will throw into the furnace....

And what about those who are less fortunate and never had a chance to hear the good news - like our very old ancestors who never even met anyone from the other end of their country? Are they all in hell? Why do I want to believe and love a God that send all my family and friends to hell?

So can they be saved just by deeds? If one mati liao, as christians, we believe in only ONE GOD. No matter what faith you embrace, you go and see GOD. Meet God liao still don't want to acknowledge and believe ah? If you believe in God and always do good deeds (before mati), why send you to hell leh?

If you belive at that point but did not do good deeds (use because you don't know mah....as excuse), can you beg God to show you some mercy? We Catholics are praying for ou down here....support you bro! Maybe God will show mercy but that's His call. We only help to pray for mercy for you......even if we don't know you, even if you hate Catholics....

On the other hand, people spread good news - chiong ah.....but what non-believers hear are all bad news - go to hell etc.... Some kenna "conned" and go to church (but never love God type....) but most have a wrong impression of the faith and hate us. These people are driven away from Christ by such christians - are they (such christians) for Christ or Anti-Christ?

They don't believe in love and cannot bother to follow Jesus even when they call themselves christians. They think they are saved liao because they say they have faith. No need deeds. No need to scrafice for God,, relax liao and do what they like because sins (past, present and future) fogiven by God liao. When they mati and face God, how to answer when God ask them - you got show love or not? You cannot even love your fellow christians (CATHOLIC) ? You HATE them because you think they deserve it?

How to ask God for mercy (cannot use don't know excuse liao.....because you know byt did not follow).....or..or...or....!!

You think God will send these people to heaven?

Anyway, who goes where is not our judgement but exclusively to God. We believe and we just have faith and trust in God. Follow His teachings as much as we can and leave the rest to God - because we have faith, we must live it (deeds).

Now if that is the case, can we be proud that our God is LOVING, FORGIVING, CARING and GREAT or whatever those christians spreading the good news is saying...? Perhaps...right?

Mrlimkopi SG

another example: the last line in your reply to dumb2 on 15 May 5.05 pm

this is tantamount to saying that you listen to Jesus and dumb2 doesn't... and perhaps that's why dumb2 is antagonised by you.

My apologise if that gave you a wrong impression, but since I am convinced, I say it is clear....If I think I am always right, I will not accept yr version and ask you to explain on the goats........can I blame dumbdumb for this huh? Ha..ha..

Dumddumb tried to make a mockery out of everything Catholic without knowing facts.

Such as, he says Catholic only know how to pray...but do nothing (while he is playing super hero out there saving the world)....why do we pray? It seems he said he dosen't (but later said he pray whole day) and I just pointed out that Jesus asked us to pray, so if you say you don't see the need, are you trying to say you do not see need to follow Jesus?

He gave a few examples which seems to say no need tyo follow Jesus...when I asked if that is the case, he always did not answer but change subject.

I said we follow what Jesus taught and that's what we are taught by our church to do.

I don't think I antagonised him but he seems to be shooting his own feet.

Chin Eng SG

I believe what I believe to be true, but I do not believe what I believe is the absolute truth.

Neither am I interested to convince you that my truth is truer that your truth.

.... in all seriousness, nothing is absolutely and totally clear.

Mrlimkopi SG

I believe what I believe to be true, but I do not believe what I believe is the absolute truth.

Neither am I interested to convince you that my truth is truer that your truth.

.... in all seriousness, nothing is absolutely and totally clear.

Totally agreed with you.....

Icemoon SG

The poor and illterate don't have the resource or the intellect to repeat your feat yet they are Christians..... so who's saved and who's not.

Maybe all are saved? ^^

Anyway I quote the WCF in response to your "challenge". This can be done by anyone here, because they have internet connection. Don't bring in Fujian or Batam farmers again, they are not in the context.

If you look at the poor and illiterate in the past, it is scary. You are right, they don't have the resource or intellect to repeat my feat; neither can they repeat feats like quoting parables and understanding them correctly. So how? Pray to saints. Indulge in indulgences. Work for salvation. Are they saved?

Can of worm, unker, can of worm.

Icemoon SG

How come your argument sounds so Jewish? I mean, this is what they say too - try your best. Haha.

But this does not square with the Christian notion of judgement. If God demands perfection and nobody can meet that standard except Christ, then it is no longer ok to try your best. "The best is not good enough" (lol .. my boss told me that last time).

ChiBet SG

to chi bet:

i sympathise wif ur situation n am sadden tat such churches like urs exist. however, u mentioned tat u have chosen to be stubborn abt 2cor6:14..i am not going to say tat u must die die follow but juz sth u may like to tink abt…

as christians, we r suppose to yield to wad the bible has tot us n not decide using our own pt of view whether we wanna follow or not…when jesus when up to the mountain juz b4 he was crucified to pray, wad did he pray? he told God tat his heart was heavy n tat if it was possible, let tis cup pass him by. he was toking abt his cricifixion. yet jesus continued n said, but its not my will but urs, my Father…

i understand the emotional attachment tat comes wif a r/s n tat its emotionally painful to break up wif someone u love. but when christians preach against being unequally yoked, we r looking into the future…after u r married to her, how r u going to bring up ur children? will she allow u to bring them to church every wk? as a christian, ur duty is to bring up ur children in the ways of the Lord…

tink abt wad i have said…i noe some ppl will flame me for tis but i see a need to let u noe tat as christians, we shld not practise selective obedience(obey onli wadever doesnt hurt us)...God bless…

your comment about being unequally yoke is exactly the same reason the the church gave me, about how i am going to raise my kids if my wife is a non christian but it is always my hope that my gf would convert to be a christian.

are christians suppose to abandon those who are not responsive to their conversion efforts? my girlfirend is not denying me from going to church nor is she insisting that i should pray to idols.

My mum and dad (devouted taoist/buddhist) insists that i pray to idols. Do i abandon them also? the church advised i should.

as for my kids, i know that children born to christians are not automatically christians. they need to make the decision to accept CHRIST into their lives on their own. I see no harm in me trying to get my kids to be good christians while my wife try to get them to be good buddhist/taoist as at the end of the day the decision is theirs to make, not my wife's or mine.

children born to a couple with the same beliefs tends to be brainwash by their parents beliefs as they do not have any exposure to other beliefs. they also tend to be more narrow minded and fanatical. I do not wish this on my kids as i had experienced this first hand. can you really say someone had choose to accept CHRIST if they had been brainwashed into doing it?

Again, this could be excuses i give to myself to continue on with my current BGR but i sincerely hope that my gf would convert as i cannot imagine how life would be without her. Would heaven really be heaven if you cannot be with the ones you love? Would GOD/CHRIST ask me to abandon the ones I love to hell?

I know GOD/CHRIST ask us to love all unconditionally but I am not at that level yet. how can I love strangers and save them from hell when whose who are closest to me and those I love/love me most are still in danger of going to hell?

despondent SG

again i understand how u feel…but can u guarantee she will definitely convert??? i noe u r going to tell to wait n see…but when tat day comes n she is still not converted, wad r u gonna do? marry a non-christian??? u will be surprise tat in the bible, there r cases when God said to do things which sound rather harsh to humans in order to be more godly…

jesus said tat if ur eye causes u to sin, gouge it out n throw it into the lake of fire…if ur hand cause u to sin, chop it off n throw it away…for its better one part of the body is bad than for the whole body to be bad…tis is nt to be taken literally of cuz…but the meaning is tat do not let those things tat stumble u in ur life remain n dwell wif u…to grow in the Lord, one shld seek to remove such things from their lives…of cuz it would take time but we shld make a conscientious effort to do so…

its not abt whether she allow u to go church nw…its abt the future…we all noe tat the future is sth we dunno…the thing is…is it worth taking such a risk when taking such a risk is nt edifying to God’s kingdom??? no one can guarantee she will convert eventually…even if she does, has it ever occur to u tat she could do it for u n nt for God??? again, as a saying goes: u can bring a horse to the water, but u cun force it to drink from it. so whether u wanna take heed wad ur fellow brethrens have warn u, its up to u…

despondent SG

u shld nt abandon ur parents or gf…i tink u need to understand the difference btw agreeing n accepting…yes as christians, we r nt to worship or bow to idols but tat doesnt mean we abandon our parents…after all, commandment 5 says to honour our parents…

loving someone does not necessarily mean we must enter a bgr wif them…in the 1st place, human love cannot fill the emptiness in her heart which requires God’s love…u see, human love no matter how great is always imperfect…can an emptiness tat requires the perfect love of God to fill be filled wif our imperfect love??? u can continue to love the person like a sister…put it tis way, if God has willed the 2 of u to be tgr, u WILL be tgr eventually…so wads there to worry??? if lets say u broke up wif her cos of religion n she nvr marries u, y shld u worry? isnt God in control of everything?? doesnt He noe wads best for u?? wouldnt He provide wads best for u?

anyway, having said all these…i leave u to decide…i will not comment any further on tis as i am sure u have heard more than enuff…juz noe tat God hates rebellion n disobedience…adam fell because of tat…tats y the world has become like tat…

Mrlimkopi SG

How come your argument sounds so Jewish? I mean, this is what they say too - try your best. Haha.

Jesus is a Jew what? But what is sound so Jewish....people too complicated lah...then later says pagan.....etc....

If God demand perfection, all go hell liao....where got perfect man one? If that means we don't try, then give up lor....When we say God is loving, forgiving etc....do we really believe in it?

There other sacraments that comes into play...but so pagan why talk about it? You know all liao so don't kay kay here leh...

What do you mean by Christians's judgment ? I thought we should not be judgemental?

Wait I kenna attack again.......you help me or not?

Creation1656 SG

Originally posted by ChiBet:

Would heaven really be heaven if you cannot be with the ones you love? Would GOD/CHRIST ask me to abandon the ones I love to hell?

Hi ChiBet,

Please repeat after me, In Judaism there is no such place called land of eternal BBQ. Hashem is a GOD of love who loves his creations unconditionally.

Don,t believe in teachings that threaten decent people with the prospect of a one way ticket to the land of eternal BBQ. Just remember that Hashem loves you, your family and all his creations. Nothing happens in heaven or on earth without Hashem approval. Hashem is the first and the last, Hashem is the King of the Universe. Believe in Hashem and only Hashem and the peace of Hashem will be with you.

Mrlimkopi SG

are christians suppose to abandon those who are not responsive to their conversion efforts? my girlfirend is not denying me from going to church nor is she insisting that i should pray to idols.

My mum and dad (devouted taoist/buddhist) insists that i pray to idols. Do i abandon them also? the church advised i should.

I think you re-consider lah... Why would a good religion ask you to divide and break up your family? Abandon your parents? I thought one of the 10 commandments says honour your father and monther....

Mrlimkopi SG

If you try to get them to be christians and your wife to get them to be buddhist/taoist, you child will be confused and lost........

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